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Tuesday, November 25, 2003
Where Others Fear to Tread : Sean Tobin Interviewer : Dawn Fung Sean Tobin We glimpse over my cheap pink Dictaphone. Sean's hair has grown since the last time I saw him. As an associate director with The Necessary Stage and the administrator of arts4jesus* egroups Sean's role is constantly redefined by his environment which can be baffling to those not used to the fringe. Having lived in Singapore since 1983, he speaks in a comfortable Singlish accent and is happily married. "Might sound simple but I'm interested in what people really think and what people really really feel, even if it's not 'correct'." Dawn : How did arts4jesus get started? Sean : It started out as an extension of the work I was doing when I was with TOUCH Arts, where we were creating programmes to support the arts community, as well as the more pastorial work that we were doing in TOUCH Ministry, with our Arts cell groups, Arts prayer walks and prayer meetings etc. Mary Loh, already a friend at that time, a fellow member in the church and often working together in TOUCH Arts programmes, was the one that set up the actual email group and sent out the notice to a few people, hoping to get some kind of mutual support going, especially in terms of prayer support etc. But I think either we were all to busy and so not techno savvy. Eventually when I cottoned onto how it all worked I saw its potential to bring people together, at least on the most basic level. So cheers to Mary for starting it up and figuring out how it works. Mary, myself and a few others I had met at that time (the numbers have grown significantly since) had realised that there was a growing number of Christians in the arts community who were not consciously aware or supporting and affirming each other. For me it was a matter of how Christians out there can speak up a bit about their faith, meet other Christians, talk about issues and encourage and even collaborate with one another? I realised a lot of them did not know each other. There were also people from the older generation (in age, art years or spiritual years) who knew so much and could pass on information to younger generations starting out and yeah, for me the least I could do was to connect people. I had realised that many of the Christians in the Arts where members of churches but naturally our churches would not be able to address lots of the specific needs of Arts professionals, so I figured it needed to be something the community facilitated itself. Around that time Alvin Tan had also set up the artscommunity email group, which is now very huge and in fact I have to receive it by daily digest because there can be like 20 emails per day. I had had in mind that the email group would be a lot more discussive, like the arts community email group can be, but I eventually had to accept that this community was not interested or able to do that, and therefore I had to let go a lot of my ideals and expectations, and let it take its course; but anyway…it had started. And I was pretty active and aggressive in spreading the word about it, in chasing people to join the email group to ensure we really got as many of our local Christian arts workers as possible. Back in TOUCH Arts and TOUCH Ministry, my role was a bit more pastoral so it was easier for me to make it part of my work and even put time into it. However I think we only had one single arts4jesus meeting at St Andrew's Cathedral - we had a prayer session, someone led worship, and people had an opportunity to mingle and socialise with each other - if we could have more of that it would be great, but I think it takes the community to rise up and take ownership to initiate and manage things like this, or it takes a couple of individuals that have more time to put into it. So anyway I think there are a lot of issues that people want/need to speak out on (definitely prayer and encouragement are needed) like roles that I can/should or cannot/shouldn't take as an actor, the kind of characters I can play and where is the line to draw between respecting one another and being open? However, now that I am no longer working with TOUCH, and I am recovering from ministry burn out, I am married, my TNS work is very busy, I've settled into Church of Our Saviour (COOS) and my role in co-moderating arts4jesus with Mary has become predominantly administrative, like putting people on the group, helping approve emails, reject inappropriate emails and all sorts of other complicated egroup stuff. I used to write devotions and send out emails to start discussions, highlight exciting resources I had found, but now I really don't have time for it and I guess I feel that I should not have to do so much, and the community, if they feel certain needs need to rise up and take ownership of things too.  sean searching Dawn : Besides arts4jesus, or a4j as it is commonly known, you're also quite active in the industry. How has the scope of your work changed since you moved from Touch Arts** to The Necessary Stage (TNS)? [Sean had been in Touch Arts for 5 years after working with ACT 3 for two years. He moved to TNS two plus years ago.] Sean : I think for me, the arts are a thing for community although I'm not just talking about community theatre. It is a space where we can share our hearts and reflections in human understanding and expression, dissolve prejudices and misunderstandings, and see things from a range of different perspectives. I have found different ways of learning how to do that. A question I ask my self is how do I become really, really good at [serving the community through my work] so that I can be the best that I can? The season at TNS has been a season of growing artistically, where as formally my work was very much bigger picture stuff, more like being a producer and a pastor at the same time, though I did some directing, writing and acting work as well. I tend to work a lot with sensitive issues, issues of the heart that are delicate, and artists in my shows are often committed to share a lot of themselves, even disclosure of their personal lives. So I am at a stage I my creative learning, where even working this way also gets quite 'technical' or say 'ethical' even as the work gets personal. Healing was a small piece, which was kept to the room for a private audience but what if I was to stage it in public? There are implications for moral issues that come out so I'm trying to work out how to handle such information artistically and interpersonally. The way I facilitate the excavation of material, the way I work with the actors in crafting the presentation, and how to capture it in a way that the teller is respected but the audience is also respected and engaged as well? Just the beginning of many questions and challenges I face in this work. Dawn : As such, do you see your work as dramatherapy? I don't think I'm moving into therapy, though I have done training in counselling and pastorial work, and my temperament is very much that of a counsellor, cos by nature I have truck loads of empathy, and I have always had an interest in Psycho Drama, Drama therapy and Art Therapy and I have worked a lot with Playback Theatre which has stemmed somewhat from Psycho Drama . I devise shows which include a significant amount of personal disclosures but they are not construed as drama therapy. I would say the work may be therapeutic as it touches on tender social issues; therapeutic for both the performer and audience alike. But is it therapy therapy? Nah… I hope it is still just Art. Art for the heart, perhaps. Dawn : Is it the nature of TNS work? Sean : I think TNS generally, broadly speaking comes from a more social action background. In the past it's more about underdogs and people on the fringe but it's developing more into stories and not just single issues like say, MAID ABUSE. For example the Mardi Gras is a mainstream and a social active thing- I wouldn't say it's therapeutic but it does have a social slant on things. TNS is also a collective of artists and each of them has a different perspective. The Artists are mostly exploratory and experimental in various ways, largely collaborative and many of our works are devised, but not all. For me it's more of a confidence thing. I'm more of a devisor than a director and I would find it really hard if you gave me a script and asked me to direct that. So working in this environment my style is very much nurtured and supported and I can learn from others that work similairly and also work very differently. A great training ground. For me, the change in working environment built my confidence working with different people. You see I am naturally more of a deviser/director; more collaborative. I do not like to pick up a script and direct it. At least not at this stage of my life.. I am dealing a lot with my inhibitions and all that and it can get intense because at times I am working with actors that are very professional and experienced, and it can be a bit intimidating for me, but I love the challenge. Also I am looking at other directors and writers creating work, the choices they make and the feedback that I receive on my work for improving my shows. Being in Revelations as a performer made me learn more about being an actor instead of a director.  the tobin daze Dawn : What show are you currently working on? Sean : 'Oh Man!', coming from the point that I wanted to get men to talk about being a man. We're in a situation now where gender is so mixed up, although there are pros and cons, but I think people still need to talk about it. Talk about where they place their identity and what does being a man mean to them - how do they communicate, how do they communicate with other men…what are their relationships like with other men, like fathers, sons, grandfathers, whatever… In a way it is a straight play in contrast to the many plays around the place that have been dealing with 'gay issues', to put it simplistically, but then again I don't necessarily want to do a non-gay play because the gay issue will come out because of its relevance and because it has come up in the devising process, in our community focus groups and through the actor's devising. The piece is exp loring the whole idea of manhood. The collective psyche of the Singapore man. Dawn : I think that plays like Oh Man are relevant and timely because in a time like this, men are always having to deal with social and gender changes that implicates the nurturing of growth and understanding of manhood. Do you see yourself continuing to explore this issue in subsequent works? Sean : The gender thing? No actually. Definitely the gender topic is an interest in my life. I've always been a bit of a gender bender because as a man I'm a lot more in touch with my emotions, I am very expressive and not into sports and all that, and more so when I was younger I dressed more 'differently' - gender is something that I consider and talk about a lot with other people. As for working more on this topic, I don't have in mind to explore it more. I could be interested to bring the Oh Man idea to Australia and explore it deeper but in Singapore the gender thing is a one off lah. As for the issue of the restoration of [being] man: I met a male friend recently who felt he wasn't 'man enough' and he just doesn't know what to do; not being successful enough in his career or relationships; not earning enough money - and I think this is and will remain a relevant issue for many men. It's also something that is in my heart and something that I'm trying to work through, like relationships between me and other men like my father; and how I continue to deal with the fact that I will always be outside of the definition of what a man should be. Whatever art I create, there's always a personal aspect, and a therapeutice element for me too. The work stems from questions I find myself repeatedly asking. Dawn : I find that you're always in contact with men that might posit you as a mentor, older brother or a role model. What challenges have you been up against in that area, as a man to other men? Sean : I think you are also asking, specifically as a Christian in an environment where there are many who are anot Christians and how do I bring my Christian influence and all that. That is a hard one to put in a nut shell because it is complicated and there are manythings that I am still exploring and working towards resolving. You see I'm the kind of person who does not want to impose, you know what I mean. I do not like to push my views onto others. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Some friends in the arts understand and appreciate that I'm not imposing my beliefs but just because my head is nodding when I am listening to your views, don't necessarily mean I agree with you lah, but that I appreciate and respect what you are saying, and…well I just nod a lot when I listen lah. I just want to listen. I define my role as this: can I listen, love and respect others for who they are and not want to change them? Can I just be there to share life with others, in love, and respect and serve and help others? For me it's not important that people know that I do or do not approve of their lifestyles, because for me it really comes down to the basic thing: either you're a Christian or you're not a Christian. If you're a Christian it means that you've made a choice to live a certain lifestyle and if you're open to help or guidance, I'll be there to help and I'll be careful about how I do it. If you're a Christian and you don't expect that from me, I would feel like I'm imposing if I say or do something and I'll be aware of how I'll come across. I see that as a disservice to the person and to the expression of the faith. But I must say it's all a process, figuring out how to manage all this. It takes maturity, undertstanding of God's word, praying and sensing His guidance, having wisdom and discernment, as well as growing in sensitivity to others. Whether you're older or younger, people will always look at you and learn things. I'm aware of that. When these people around me are non-Christians, I don't have an expectation of what they may or may not be and I don't feel a need to tell them what I think about their life. If a person starts telling me about their experiences, whether or not my Christian faith applies, I'd just listen and empathise and I'd look out for how the person can love and respect himself and have a sense of human dignity. However if they ask me about my faith and they want to know more, or how I feel, basically I'd tell them. But for me I guess I have that boundary line. What is difficult for me is being surrounded by non-Christians and falling into the temptation of not watching my tongue, and I get into that very easily. So I think that's quite challenging. But I guess you'd have to be very secure to be hanging around people who are very different to you. You have to know what you believe in and just because you're with people with very differing opinions does not mean that you have to be like them. The whole notion of being in the world but not of the world…..is…….hard to figure out. Dawn :I know people who have difficulty reconciling their faiths with the kinds of roles they are offered onstage. What advice would you give to those who are struggling with these decisions? Sean : I feel that there are a few things that I have to ask myself. Christian or non-Christian whatever, is the play meaningful? Are there relevant issues that ultimately are constructive rather than destructive? Is the show asking important questions? There are a lot of times when Christians freak out at art work that may seem blasphemous when these art works can be seen as asking questions about God, and they are very valid questions. Like, how can God make you when the world is so horrible? In the bible there are many questions like that too. Having said that, each person also have their own personal views. A long while b ack I recall watchingDevil's Advocate with a close Christian Artist friend, and I really loved it, in a lot of ways, but she thought it was horrible and defiling. Sometimes, honestly, it's very subjective, and personal; you know, what you can handle. So it depends on your personal standpoint and stage of life, because when you take up this role, you might have felt you believed in it but other people might tell you something is wrong and you might feel really convicted afterwards. Just because you might be taking up a role doesn't mean that you might be playing a role model, although sometimes it does play that function. Dawn : Could you summarise what you'd love to explore? Sean : Might sound simple but I'm interested in what people really think and what people really really feel, even if it's not 'correct'. Like what really makes you happy or hurt - that means looking into the honesty of the soul. I'm interested in other things as well, but I really like human inspired themes, like Oh Man!. I like to pick up on issues, which seem to be generalised by people but really are quite complex. Like in church, I'd love to have a gathering where people are able to talk about the difficult topics that we don't usually talk about, you know what I mean, just to create understanding instead of sweeping things under the carpet. By nature I'm a rather expressive person and I'd talk about anything but I don't really, really open up to many people. I find it interesting that theatre is a space that I make myself and others open up. What I like about COOS (Church of Our Saviour) is that although it has an intensive arts ministry, it's not driven about tasks but more about building relationships with people. I drive that way also and I like to think about our arts ministry as a welcoming place and as and when you're ready, to contribute. It's very enjoyable and peaceful. I really appreciate that. I feel that often churches want to control the arts whereas I think of arts as quite individualised and specialised. You can't handle the arts with a cookie cutter and indirectly, you could be cramping the Holy Spirit. So it's better when churches try to understand the artists, what they are doing and where they are coming from. Maybe it is better not to have too many arts programmes - instead pray and support the artists - this could lead to a freer expression of love and understanding, and we might see artists really taking flight in doing all that God has created and called them to be and to do. ---- update 261204 : zdean and his wife Serena moves to Perth to continue their arts ministry.
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