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Saturday, May 01, 2004
The Third Way : Johnny Gillett Interviewer : Dawn Fung What I needed was for someone to understand my dilemma and that was very hard. For a short time I thought, "God, you're either very cruel or you don't exist." Johnny is leaving. Julia Gabriels plus youth director of St George's equals to four fruitful years. This pioneer 's CV includes creating The Drama Factory in West Sussex, been artistic director of Theatricus involving large scale outdoor performances and multi-arts workshops and projects. Dawn :Was it quite a stretch for you guys? Johnny : Singapore's a good base to place yourself. Businesses and missions are based here and all kinds of stuff. I had ideas that sounded great and I said, "Lord maybe you have another idea. So I'm open to you, whatever you want to do." That's when the St George's opening came up. You're working with so many kids for a short but intense period of time. The whole thing was to build them, and then send them as a blessing wherever they go or whatever they get involved in. Dawn : How do you help the Third Culture syndrome that kids experience? Johnny : Third Culture is a state of being psychologically and culturally alienated in a place that is different to parents and hosts. If third culture people are not aware of the similar dilemma of others, it can be a very lonely place to be. If they go into the local school, it's a big deal because for the majority of students there, that nation is home. For example, this guy might be Singaporean but Singapore might not be home. These kids have to know that they are not alone and that there are benefits growing up like that. Dawn : In a general sense this syndrome has connotations for all artists. What is the relevance of Christians in the arts? Johnny : I see performance as reworking and commenting on society. We have something to say from the eternal to the mundane. So there is a deep necessity for us to be involved in the conversation that society is having. Otherwise we might be stumbling on the things of God instead of being guided by the Spirit. If we are in touch with God, then he is working through us and in us and out of us. Art as a therapeutic tool can come from people who have engaged with the Father, if not simply to show society that we are doing something tangibly useful. People are more interested in what else you have to offer when they see you have some use! Dawn : I am at a point where I cannot care less about art for its sake, as long as it's effective as a tool for the gospel. Do you still manage to use art in your work as a pastor? Johnny : I do, and I have difficulty with what you just said. I think of myself firstly as an artist. In my work I tend to think of things in dramatic, creative, artistic ways. Young people are more open to visuals, sounds and post- modern snippets. A lot of kids at St George's are not very comfortable with singing though a lot of youth ministry is based around music. These kids are not into the music worship scene. Instead we discuss the tracks we listen to, do painting and pictures and I've been amazed at the result. We would put up their art and use them as stimulus for prayers. We use objects as stimulus for encouraging one another and to bring the Holy Spirit into conversations. Dawn : I'm interested to know what you struggle with and why you have difficulty with what I said. Johnny : A lot of us have unwritten hopes and dreams at a progressive scale. I've done theatre companies and I've seen our audiences grow and our tours lengthen. I've seen the actors coming in and becoming more committed to us. At a point where it was too big and something had to happen, I came to Singapore, where artistically, I wanted to see what it does for me and what I would go back with. That was what I had anticipated. However I have not done much acting, mime, arts projects since arriving in Singapore...not to the same degree that I was doing five years ago. Part of me thinks, "Can I still do it? Have I missed out different developments that people are aware of?" That is my struggle. I see myself going into this other area that will be another number of years, and not so on the pulse of arts. When I was performing, my lifestyle was geared all around that - my body was ready. Part of me is very sad about that now. Dawn : Have you always been pioneering work? Johnny : It looks that way, doesn't it. I come from a part of UK that is a bit of a cultural backwater. Littlehampton is in the middle of three arts capitals and it has a bemused perception of them. We were doing creative things that made people say that the works might be better at Arundel, Brighton or Chichester. I was thinking, "Hmm...I quite like the idea that we have it here and we're not taking it to those places. The "upside-down kingdom thing" where people think that Littlehampton's not much of a place to hang out...but it's my home." I was part of a town council committee there and it had a little place for the arts. It became very good eventually. We would inspire one another with the projects that we had, and were aware of other projects that people were doing. We were given money to allot to various arts projects and it was exciting to be part of that process. But I guess that's where the pioneering element comes in. I see myself going where no one's gone before, like a Trekker. But pioneering can be a security blanket for us artists. We do something that no one has done before so that it cannot be compared with anything. How can one measure your success? Maybe it's a place to hide. Dawn : What is your opinion of the arts scene in Singapore? Johnny : I'm quite excited by the people I've chatted to in Singapore. I'll tell you why. The Christian arts scene that I've generally come across in various other countries has often been a second runner. It seems to me that what the Christians have to offer here, those who are serious in their art, is comparable or better than what seems to be secular. Dawn : I'm quoting you on that. You don't know what impact that will make here. Johnny : I'm been thinking about that. I think it's because the arts scene is so new. So the Christians are at the front where they should be, on equal footing. There is of course a fear of the arts, but that seems to be pervasive in the whole society as opposed to a badly woven Christian theology in Singapore. Is it because the Holy Spirit is involved? Is it my perception that I'm picking up on things that I would not have if I was not a Christian? Is it purely subjective or more than that? Dawn : You're the first one we've met who has given Christians in the arts here such a favourable report. Johnny : Regarding the arts in church, there are three groups of people. The first group consists of people who enjoy art, but are not artists and the most regular form of art they get is probably TV. The second group are those who are creative and who will volunteer to do the church drama for a good illustration of a sermon. This group often work with group one, whose art perception is fairly low. In return, group two tends to do stuff that communicates easily to this group. Group three are the artists. They are in a difficult position, because they are frustrated with group two. Group three will do one of two things: either to join group two and find that their ideas are not well received and they get hurt and withdraw, or they just bypass group two completely and they would do stuff on their own, then come to church each week to sit at the back. They find the arts community enriching, but the church does not seem to have anything to say. In turn, the church seems to perceive that their art is ungodly because it doesn’t fit their box. Dawn : Can we have a third place where artists can have a breather and take refuge, come in and worship the way they like? Johnny : In the UK we have outfits like MAGMA and the Arts Exchange, where the focus is not about a service. The most important thing was that we got together, understood one another and shared the word...expressing worship through those things that work for us. If it is working, then we should structurally put stuff together. When we see Christians in the arts putting together stuff that may not answer questions, that ponder on our existence and are artistically strong, that makes audiences think twice. I do want to see a gathering of Christians artists, if anything, to say that we're not alone. Much like the Third Culture of the kids and supporting one another. I do remember at 16 making an adult decision for Jesus. The hardest time for me was in my twenties. There were times where I felt his promises were empty, it was not working out. People would be full of encouraging words but it was not received well. What I needed was for someone to understand my dilemma and that was very hard. For a short time I thought, "God, you're either very cruel or you don't exist." (Laugh) A lot of my work came through Christians and they were not the best payers. It raised a lot of questions and there was a lot of hurt in that. This whole feeling of exploitation made me think that I was being treated better by the world than the church...what is going on? Now it puts me in a place where I can empathise with a lot of Christians trying to make things work. The whole walk put me in a place where I feel like I have something to say that might be helpful and might be good for some people to hear. I had really good people who were supportive of me even if they did not understand the situation. I remember meeting up with my church leader who's very pastoral to me. I said, "It's not working. I can't make it to these church meetings because I have to work so hard to make money just to live." "Your presence in church does a lot for the church, and we want to be there for you. But look, if coming to church means just sitting at the back because you cannot be involved in a dynamic artistic way, so be it. I just want to make sure that you're there." I felt that there was an expectation for me to be an artist putting my art in church on a regular basis. That can take a lot of time. They could understand me as a person, but not my woe in my job. When I pursued work with secular companies, people found that difficult sometimes. For some of them, it was assumed that I did it for the money only. Because I need to earn money. Why would I want to work with non-christians in the arts? It is a dangerous place... The money is okay. It is very much a part of it. But I just wanted to work with non-christians to be salt and light, and to learn from these guys! They are artistically of a certain calibre that would push and stretch me. In the Christian stuff I was the pioneer but in the secular world, I am just another actor. That's a nice place to be sometimes. Dawn : "French Vanilla" is the name of this issue. What does that mean to you? Johnny : Is it actually a thing? (Laugh) You're talking about ice-cream. A lot of people like strawberry, a lot of people like chocolate. But when you put strawberry and chocolate together, they start pointing fingers at one another. So if they have to work together, they have to work in vanilla. It is a bad thing because it is bland. That's our big dilemma... how do we remain strawberry and chocolate without compromising to neopolitan? -- update 261204 ; Johnny Gillett and family have moved back to England and continuing God's work in theatre and youth work.
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